Water For Gas Problems
I have received a lot of e-mail, and some great responses from my posts about the problems with the water for gas system. I have received many comments from highly educated experts in the chemistry field. I would like to thank these individuals for reading my posts and taking the time to provide their opinion on the water for gas system.
I would like to address two areas of the water for gas package in today’s Post. First I would like to talk briefly about the main part or component of the water for gas system. This is known as the hydrogen generator, and by far, has the most controversy surrounding it.
The hydrogen generator uses an electrolyzer to release the hydrogen from the distilled water and baking soda mixture. It seems that most educated people feel that this system is not worth the time to build. In fact, the chemists quoted units of energy used as opposed to units of energy created. While I am not a chemist, and I do respect their research on the subject, the electrolyzer seems to be the main reason that these chemists feel the system is inefficient.
Water4gas test
I did a quick multi meter test this morning and found that the electrolyzer draws less amps and voltage than the headlight system on my wife’s Toyota. A few of the responses stated that the electrolyzer pulled more energy from the alternator, which is driven by the gas engine. I will have to respectfully disagree due to this simple test with my meter.
Some of the comments stated that the electrolyzer puts more of a drain on the electrical system causing the alternator to work harder and therefore burn more fuel. Again, I respectfully disagree. I have never noticed a difference in my fuel economy when turning on my headlights, which causes the same condition as the hydrogen generator.
The water for gas system
The water for gas system includes many other helpful ways to increase fuel economy that have absolutely nothing to do with a hydrogen generator. My favorite ingenious idea, included in this package was the fuel heating system. I have seen absolutely no comments or response to this part of the water for gas package.
The fuel heater uses heat generated from the engines cooling system. This makes great use of an unused byproduct of engine combustion. The theory is that if you purchase the fuel cold from in ground tanks in a condensed state, and then heat the fuel to expand the molecules before combustion, you are getting the most bang for your gas dollar.
The water4gas system also has plans to build oxygen sensor, mass airflow sensor, and manifold absolute pressure sensor enhancers. I have to be honest with you and tell you that I have not gotten to this section of the program yet and have not built or worked with these sensor-enhancing systems.
I have reviewed the theory behind them and must say that I am impressed with what I have read so far. These three sensors help the computer decide the length of injector on time. And to make a long story short, the less the injector is turned on, the better your fuel economy will be.
Addressing water for gas problems
Also in my comments section they mentioned that distilled water and baking soda could be expensive. This is another section that is addressed in the water4gas manuals. I do not want to be the mighty defender of the water for gas system, but as a purchaser of the product, I feel that sometimes it is misrepresented in comments and on message boards.
I repeat the water for gas system has problems, as indicated by my two previous posts you will find below. But even if you find fault with the hydrogen generator the water 4 gas package supplies other ways to increase your fuel economy. I would like for the chemists that commented to actually purchase the entire product and review the 300 or more pages of ideas and techniques.
Again, I mean no disrespect to the people who are obviously smarter than me, As far as the scientific end of the equation. But we are discussing an automotive application to increase fuel economy. I am a certified master technician that is also ASE certified in alternative fuels. The water for gas collection of fantastic ideas to increase your fuel economy is a worthwhile product.
Water4gas is not a snap your fingers product!
Another problem with the water for gas system is that it’s depth of information can take a lot of man-hours to reach its full potential. The idea is to review a section and then apply those ideas and fine tune/test results from any modifications before moving on to the next section.
If you put effort into this system your reward will be increased fuel economy. In fact, I am starting to believe that the claims of doubling your gas mileage can be achieved, if enough effort is invested. This system is not for everybody because of this effort that is required to achieve maximum results. But if you ask me it is still worth taking a look at. You can view videos and testimonials, plus also view free sample pages of the water for gas system by clicking here.
I do invite your comments and appreciate your time and effort discussing this extremely important topic of increasing your fuel economy. If you are chemist, I would like to see you purchase the system and investigate the other features besides the hydrogen generator further. The e-books have a 100% money back guarantee, so you can review it and then return it if you feel it is worthless.
Tags: fuel economy, fuel prices, hydrogen generator, increase gas mileage, water for gas scam, water4gas
May 12th, 2008 at 5:19 am
One question comes to mind in the system that I have never seen anyone address. I live in Minnesota, and here for about 6 months or more of the year, the temperature is below freezing. In fact, for a couple of weeks, its gets cold enough in places for salt water to freeze. Since the byproduct of combusting brown’s gas is water, how does this affect the inside of the engine? A big problem here in the winter is frozen fuel lines arising from the tiny amount of water that can get into the fuel supply just from moist air. COuld this system make that problem worse? Can it cause corrosion inside the engine? Anyone know?
May 12th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
Hello John: This subject is addressed in the water4gas manuals but I have not read it because I live in south Florida. From what I have heard the baking soda improves the freeze protection slightly as salt would but also additives can be used to increase freeze protection further.
On the subject of water in the engine, the moisture created is all contained to the exhaust system. (post combustion) It is normal for all exhaust systems to have some water in them. When the hot exhaust on a regular car hits your frigid northern air moisture is created and will freeze. This is why exhaust systems of the past required much service and replacement. Now a days most manufacturers use stainless steel exhaust systems that hold up much better.
As a side note this is why midas has gotten into selling tires and auto service in recent years. Exhaust systems are built much better then they used to be!
May 15th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
Indeed your multimeter does give a low reading and consequently your electrolyzer will produce a low amount of hydrogen.
Let’s say your electrolyzer is drawing 10A at 12V. That is 120 watts of power. If it does that every second then your electrolyzer is drawing 120 Joules (1 watt per second = 1 joule of energy) of energy every second.
You can never breaks the laws of physics, especially the Laws of Thermodynamics. Your 120 joule electrolyzer, even if 100% efficient (and it isn’t) can only produce 120 joules equivalent of hydrogen.
That is not a lot of gas to power your car.
Yes, the electrolyzer bubbles away impressively but it isn’t producing enough energy in the form of hydrogen.
You would need a much larger electrolyzer to make a difference. It would have to be powered with lots of batteries, preferably charged by the Sun and not wasting your the petrol/gasoline in your car. The system would be so heavy that you couldn’t move the car.
You would either have to electrolyze gas and store it in a tank thus obviating the need for an onboard electrolyzer. Alternatively, you could convert your car to solely battery power and use a renewable source to charge the batteries.
May 23rd, 2008 at 8:43 pm
You do understand that the hydrogen isn’t the sole fuel source for the engine right? And that the engine is very inefficient to begin with? Is it possible that the hydrogen and oxygen can augment the petrol fuel and/or boost the performance of the engine itself? Seriously, it seems that less than 20% of your fuel is burned usefully. If you can change that percentage, you have your answer.
May 24th, 2008 at 11:48 pm
I am new to this site and have found it very useful. It seems to me that it is a viable and easily manufactured alternative to conventional fuels. I am not a master mechanic by any means, but i have done an extensive amount of shade tree work over the last 20 years. I feel the system is a very good start to a complex problem. My biggest concern is how the new computer systems and oxygen sensors will react and effect fuel economy with this system. No one wants to see the service or check engine light on. I suspect that if a good and intelligent solution is derived that we can effectively save money at the pump and save the environment. It should be noted that i am a red blooded, patriotic american and not a tree huger. However, the oil companies are really taking unfair advantage of us and should be sent a message. We will never be able to stop using fossil fuels, but will be able to reduce their demand and ultimately their cost.
I should also point out that i have worked offshore for 13-15 years.
The problem with rising fuel costs isn’t opec per say. It is that the oil companies don’t have enough refineries to handle all the petroleum product and by-products. Opec has basically begged us not to increase our production and exploration. Why? We have made the arab nations and iranians very rich due to our lack of facilities. No one wants to see the ugly and expansive refineries next o our coastlines. Look at california and florida compaerd to louisiana and texas. We found last year one of the larest unexplored oil deposits in the history of the Gulf of Mexico explortion. Opec asked us not to tap into it. Why did we comply? My guess was politics and cowardice.
May 24th, 2008 at 11:51 pm
Has anyone here actually tried to modify a 2000 f-150? I have 4 ovygen sensors a computer, map sensor etc and am curious if this can work? Please advise.
May 25th, 2008 at 9:56 am
Geoffrey : Thanks for your input it was very valuable and interesting. I have to say that the water4gas system works well in conjunction with computer controlled vehicles. In fact the main Idea is that the o2 sensors see a rich mixture from the added hydrogen brown gas mixed with your air charge and uses the data to lean the fuel trim or reduce injector on time. I have no check engine light problems with the test system I have installed in my wifes Toyota corolla.
June 2nd, 2008 at 12:21 pm
The Water4Gas web site along with all the various commentaries leads me to believe that there is a “Try it at your own risk” And yet there is a tremendous about of information both written and publish leading you into the direction on supporting the Water4Gas concept. If ones instincts are to be trusted and follow then ” What is not being told here ” For there is a great deal to be gain here given the rising fuel prices and the impact it has on our lives. There are many technologies incorporated into our automobiles and the research that had perfected them over time for the American consumer to have a true mean working machine called the American car. I hate to think that by focusing on Water4Gas technology alone along with the not so indepth r/d will eventually not cause a problem to all the other systems. There is a element of risk here and so i guess it should be said ” Buyers Be-where” . Having said all this in the saftey of others i stiill say , ” We Are To Bless To Be Stress ” Amen.
June 2nd, 2008 at 6:19 pm
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June 11th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
WHat results are you getting, strictly in terms of miles per gallon, after you installed the w4G converter on your wife’s corolla? That’s the real answer we’re all looking for here…
thanks
June 12th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
To jonas: Long story short I put the thing in my wifes car and she won’t use it. BUT we took a trip down to fort myers and the corolla got 33 mpg. The best it ever got on the highway prior was 27mpg. her 02 corolla has the VVTI 4 cyl engine. It ran good with no check engine light. I have not posted about it because I wanted to do a few more trips. My commute to work is a short city drive thats why I did not put the thing on my truck. My wife said she would use it and now she changed her mind (she’s scared) and stuburn!
June 18th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
Dear Mark- I’m new at this site and will watch for new updates from you on installing the water4gas package on a vehicle. I also purchased the 2 books form water4gas and found the information very useful and the author went to great lengths to explain the various components in his gas saving system. I plan to install the sysem on my wife old 89 dodge shadow and see the results. I will share my results on this site. DC
June 18th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Hi Don: Thanks for your post and we all look forward to your updates on how water 4 gas works for you and on your wifes 89 dodge shadow. I think this is a great test vehicle.
Mark
June 22nd, 2008 at 8:53 am
Has anyone used ths F-150 5.4 2006?
June 25th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
I posted this same thing in a different forum. I am presently testing a modified version on both vehicles. Same concept hopefully better results. Someone had mentioned it makes the oxygen sensor think your running rich and reduces the fuel to the injectors. That is actually false. The oxygen sensor actually sees more oxygen and cooler exhaust making it think it is running lean and therefore increases the fuel to the injectors. You can over ride this action by simply wrapping the exsposed part of the sensors with several layers of aluminum foil or installing oxygen extenders.
Do not attempt to do this without a water4gas system however as it can make the motor run to lean causing other problems.
I have successfully installed these units on 2 of my vehicles. A 1999 Toyota Tacoma (4 cylinder 4 wheel drive) and a 2002 Oldsmobile Bravada (vortex in line 6). Both have over 100,000 miles. I am still testing all the time to maximize the performance. At this time I am experiencing a 25% increase on my Tacoma and a 15% increase on the Bravada. What people miss is 25% is only 4 miles per gallon. 15% is only about 2.5 miles per gallon. They automatically start thinking the increase is going to be much larger. the claim is wide 10 - 70 percent. 10 percent may only be 2 miles per gallon if your allready getting 20. With today’s prices that is still a huge savings and the system pays for it self in a mater of months, longer or shorter depending on your driving and how many vehicles you install it on. The idea is to introduce you to the system and let you decide how to proceed. Experimenters are always best because thay aren’t afraid to try something different to improve the system and share it with everyone to advance the technology.
July 14th, 2008 at 7:24 am
Hi everyone
I know I’m a little late in the discussion, but I have some input I believe you all will be interested in and I also had some questions of my own. I am a first year Senior Comp Engineer major and I’m working on my 8th HHO design that I’m testing on my main car (94 Honda Accord 2dr LX).
Of the 8 I’ve made so far, I only successfully tested three in my car. As a precaution for my self I only ran the HHO in to my intake manifold through the cold air in take and did not place a “T” valve in to the fuel line to get HHO when idling. what I’ve experienced is remarkable. within the first 2 minutes after cranking the car up and flipping the HHO on, the exaust goes from being intallerable to tallerable mist (even at high end throttling ).
before I explain my test, I must tell that my Accord has modifications and defects due to time.
neg(-) & positive(+) effects on MPG.
1. (-)it has 280,000 miles and the mile meter stopped working
2. (-)it has 2.25inch exaust system and the catalyna converter is hollowed out (in other words “shot”).
3. (+) the cold air intake is ran out from under the hood near the road .
4. (-) it has valve cover gaske problems (oil around the spark plugs)
when I drive home.. which is a 111 mile trip wich use to take 1 and 3/4 quarter to a half of a tank, now takes only a 9th of a quarter.
thats like a 40% increase in milage on the freeway.
which is amaizing but its just that I can’t seem to get an accurate reading due to the problem with my mile meter. but the results is there.
My question is : does the car’s computer senses automatically pick up on the HHO and conserves gas consumption or does it just pumps as normal?
July 20th, 2008 at 11:59 am
Hi , i have bought the book to build the water for gas system ! i have a question !!! a friend told me that the system is dangerous , that can blow up ! it is that true ? another think is that somebody also say that you have to put salt or baking soda to the water and this one make many problem to the car !!! please let me know the truth.
July 20th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
To Cristian C: I guess if you bought the books you have not read them yet. When you do you will see the safety measures designed into the system. Also the place to go for questions like you have is the water4gas forums that you now have access too since you already bought the water for gas books.
July 21st, 2008 at 8:03 am
I purchased the books bought a generator on ebay and installed on my 1994 Suzuki Swift. Working as a freelance photojournalist I travel 800 to1,000 miles per week and need all the gas mileage I can get.
The single cell generator increased my gas mileage from 32 miles to the gallon to 45 city and 50 miles/gallon highway. I have since installed the system on several other vehicles and found that some vehicles have a large increase and some only a small increase in gas mileage.
Why the chemist and techies are right about the amount of hydrogen output ratio to energy input ratio they are forgetting that the system is designed to run a vehicle on hydrogen/oxygen gas but as a supplement and it is not just the hydrogen that helps to increase the gas mileage but water vapor injection along with the system. While it is true you can not break the laws of physics you can not also evaluate a system by one part of its total.
July 21st, 2008 at 5:58 pm
Currently testing the basic system plus MAP enhancer (and O2 wraps) on a 4 Runner. Results are impressive… from 20 to 29 mpg highway. The key so far is using the MAP enhancer to dial in the engine. This does play with the emissions and may fall under the category of tampering as far as the gov. is concerned. Without getting in to all the specifics, is there a way to use the system and not be an HHO outlaw? Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated.
July 23rd, 2008 at 5:55 pm
Installed single-cell system on a 99 Ford Explorer with 165k miles. Check Engine light had been on for 5 years and ~55k miles. Was throwing code for catalytic converter but it was fine. After installing the system and clearing the check engine light, engine is running smoother, check engine light has stayed off for three weeks. Do not have a reliable mpg post installation. Made the mistake of using tap water and too much baking soda. Have cleaned and refilled jar appropriately- using 1/4 tsp baking soda. Interested to know how much soda others are using.
July 24th, 2008 at 5:22 pm
I am currently building and installing the HHO systems. For those that are skeptics, it is simple, IT WORKS. There are several things people are questioning. First, it is totally safe if using the prescribed precautions. It won’t blow up!!! Secondly, the DEMSE is simple to use and the results of using the DEMSE in conjuction with the O2 wraps and the addition of acetone to the fuel tank has taken my 2003 Chevy 4.8L extended cab truck from 19 mpg as rated by the EPA to an incredible 29 mpg. Simple said, the math doesn’t lie. 10 miles per gallon increase with 26 gallon tank shows the possibility of an additional 260 miles per tank. Recently I have installed a 6-pack on a 1998 freightliner. The increase in mpg is almost 25%, but bare in mind that it only gets about 6-7 mpg prior to installation, and now gets between 8-9 mpg. This has become so successful with me and my partners that we have had to employ an additional 4 people to help build and install. Any questions or comments can be made to me directly at this email address: davon71@comcast.net
August 1st, 2008 at 5:52 pm
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August 1st, 2008 at 7:46 pm
Hi im pretty late in the conversation but I need help. I recently installed my own version of water4gas hho kit. I followed the instructions from the manual but the first time I used it I went and looked at it after a couple hours of driving and almost all of the ater had disappeared. Im not sure if that was from the suction by the vacuum tubes or what. does anybody have any idea?
August 10th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
hi. i’ve been running this system on my diesel van for about a year now. this is not a common rail diesel system so i had to adjust the diesel pump slightly. i’ve seen a massive increase in mpg. cant really give an accurate figure as the van does varying trips from week to week. (in town or motorway.
i am now starting to install on petrol engines with pre and post cat o2 sensors. no fancy gadgets like map enhancers ets. just a case of giving both sensors a good wrapping in foil. the reason this works is because the sensor compares the oxygrn in the exhaust fumes to the outside atmosphere. the sensor draws in outside o2 through the back of the sensor into the tip where the chemical reaction takes place which generates the current to the ecu.
by wrapping the sensor you not only insulate the sensor making the outside shell hotter, but if you ’seal’ it well with the foil and wire ties you obstruct the o2 being drawn in from the outside air.
i needed to prove this to myself before instalation so i tried the wraps without the kit and observed the readings on my scanner.there was a distinc change in voltage.
now i have had the kit fitted for 2 weeks and the car has alrady exceeded it’s normal amount of miles to a full tank by 43 with just under a quater of a tank to go.
August 12th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
I bought this e-book for $97 from GAS 4 Free. I would definitly call this a SCAM. I say that because they use a lot of misrepresentation on their website. You have to be a mechanical GENIUS to follow it and it will take DAYS not hours to make the thing work. Besides it will cost you HUNDREDS of dollars to make it and install it. It is NOT easy, and it is NOT cheap.
If you have lots of extra time on your hands (and maybe you do if you are reading this :)) and are very experienced with tools and cars, and have a few exra hundred dollars to invest, MAYBE this is for you.
I am going to try and get my money back under their 8 week guarantee.
August 14th, 2008 at 11:16 am
Although I have not yet built a hydroxyl generator, I have done quite a bit of research. Anyone who wants to dismiss the hydrogen/oxygen gas from water theory as a scam or hoax is more than welcome to do it…….we live in a free country. Those who want to whine because some work is required to reap the benefits from this system please re-read the literature!! It never said that it was a “something for nothing” venture!! Too many out there want to climb on the backs of others who work to achieve.
No system is perfect - the auto manufacturers are a perfect example. When it comes to fleecing the public, the oil industry does a pretty good job as well. Those who want to gripe about their situation will always do so. Those who want to improve their situation will take a chance. I prefer the latter and will be installing a system on my motorcycle and my car. When it works, I will pass it on to others to help them improve their situation. It doesn’t take a genius to build this system, it merely takes a little time and money (which I will get back in fuel savings) and a little persistance. Those who put their faith in the retirement systems that failed, the stock market that lost money, and the banks that folded trusted the wrong people. Try having some faith in your own abilitiy and the help from others trying to change for a better world. We live in a great country - not a perfect one! I’ll get off of my soapbox now……..
August 15th, 2008 at 6:42 am
i have heard that there is a probulm with hi heat in the cyl head,and that it is causing head gasket troubles,i have a 05 chevy v6 let me know if this is true or not
August 19th, 2008 at 11:25 am
I think people have the idea this is a replacement for gasoline. The hydrogen is only a supplement. If you add hydrogen to the mix, you remove SOME of the gasoline that would be used in combustion. So, don’t look at it as a replacement in total. Next, hydrogen has a lower and faster ignition. If you were to burn only hydrogen in a typical gas engine you would have to retard the engine to 0 degrees or a degree past TDC (top dead center). If hydrogen burns this well, then mixing it with gasoline that requires a longer ignition time, thus we have to ignite it in advance of 0 degrees, would burn more complete and require less gasoline to the engine cylinder. Gas engines are really inefficient due to too many moving parts. I’m guessing a wankle or rotary type motor would be more efficient as they are closer to the operating characteristics of a turbine which is about as efficient as you can get. Just my thoughts.
September 10th, 2008 at 11:08 pm
NASA has released multiple papers on hydrogen for use in multiple cylinder engines and the leaning effects. Actually water by itself is pretty poor. Methanol mixed with water yield the best results. 6-7X more hydrogen produced and no oxygen by itself. Anyone can find these papers on the web.
Not sure what a chemist would know about rocket science.
September 23rd, 2008 at 7:36 pm
In all the discussions I have found, everyone talks about the hydrogen being the supplement to the gasoline. While that is true, the gas and hydrogen are the fuels, what they often forget is that oxygen from the electrolysis is also being pushed into the combustion chambers. I do not recall how much of normal air is oxygen, but 60% is nitrogen… non-combustible. With the water4gas system, additional oxygen is pumped in and making the explosions quicker, stronger, more violent (however you want to say it). Hospitals have a richer oxygen and they have to be very careful using anything that will spark. While the hydrogen tank theories may not be much benefit, the water4gas has both hydrogen and oxygen in the formula.
October 2nd, 2008 at 9:46 am
I have built my own generator in my 2005 chevy Impala. I do have alot of work to do with different disigns, But so far it has made a difference in mpg, smoother running, preformance, and it smells better,( not like rotten eggs) no sulfur smell. I have alot of people that tell me it doesn’t work and I tell them they are right. It makes a difference in my pocket book and to the fact, I am trying to help the cause. It matters to me that it works and that my car is better. HHO generators are not mantainance free and do require you to keep up on them ,but it does make a difference to the person who cares.
October 13th, 2008 at 7:25 am
to Jordan:
I seem to agree to your research about methanol and water to produce more hydrogen. Can you give me the e-address for that topic. Can you give me the mixture formula how much methanol to water or do we still need to add NaOH or soda. Tnx
October 16th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
I put an Electrolyzer together teed it into my ‘07 Corolla and got a check Engine light every time and in highway tests of 31 miles round trip got no change in mileage. I wanted to put the gas vapor into the intake but I refuse to do anything that is not reversible while still under warranty. So for about 2 months now the Electrolyzer sits in my garage and collects dust. What is my next move if any?
November 12th, 2008 at 10:11 pm
Don’t have a reply, but I, too, am skeptical of the results, and wondering if I should take the risk and install a unit on my ‘02 Nissan Pathfinder? If there any way something will get damaged on my vehicle? Any comments would be appreciate. Thanks!
December 27th, 2008 at 11:32 pm
If this system works, why hasn’t some one built a plant which uses sea water for example (all ready has salt in it) or rain water to produce electrical power for our cities? Or a smaller unit tfor a farm or cabin in the back country, it seens to me if it works on a small scale like in a jar under the hood of a car it will work on a large scale like a an electrical generator plant. why not use wind generators to produce electric power to produce the hydrogen to power the eltrical generators? just wondering