Water for gas scam?
Is water for gas a scam? The hottest debate in my automotive niche that I have ever seen is about the new water for gas product. With gas prices reaching record highs and digging deeply into everybody’s pocket, Naturally people are looking for answers. When the necessary task of driving up and back to work costs 15-30% of what you will make that day, People are willing to take a chance on things that may seem far-fetched.
Enter the water for gas scam
This product seems to take advantage of the current skyrocketing fuel prices and offers people the solutions to what they need most, which is better fuel economy. Me being a certified mechanic, and also suffering from high fuel prices, I couldn’t help but be curious about the water for gas system. So I purchased it!
Not only am I a certified mechanic, but I am also certified in alternative fuels. The water for gas product includes two e-books that explain how the system works and hooks you up with places to buy the parts to build your own on-demand hydrogen gas system. Yes I do believe that the books were well written and a lot of effort was put into creating them.
The system has a few problems, which I will discuss. I have collected the necessary parts and started to build my own system. The first thing I discovered is that the system will actually work and can improve fuel economy. But since most of you have come to this page to find out the bad news I will focus more on that subject.
Water for gas problems
The first problem is the production of hydrogen gas in the small container that is recommended will only help improve fuel economy, a small amount. The system is limited by the size of the container and the amount of hydrogen gas produced. On a four-cylinder engine, you will see in my estimate about a 20% increase in fuel economy on long commutes. But to achieve the 50% increase as advertised either a larger container or multiple containers will be needed.
The water for gas system includes a few other innovative ideas. That coupled with the hydrogen system will improve fuel economy even further. An example is the fuel heater system that is recommended in the books. I’m a strong believer in this fuel heating system because it takes the fuel and expands the molecules before it enters the combustion chamber.
Another problem with the water for gas system is that it produces the same amount of hydrogen at idle, as it does at highway speeds. This is why the system includes an on off toggle switch. If you are driving down the highway, you can leave the switch in the on position and the system will operate very efficiently. If you get stuck in traffic your engine will be idling and hydrogen gas will be produced at the same rate as if you were traveling at highway speeds. This will cause the engine to run rich, idle poorly and eventually stall, If the system is left on while idling too long. So basically, you are supposed to reach over and turn off the system, if you are stuck in a traffic jam our plan on idling for more than a minute.
Water for gas summary
The system does work, but does have problems that may not be made clear on the main websites sales letter. If you are the kind of person that has a long highway commute this system will help you! If you do a lot of city driving in stop and go traffic You are probably best off passing on this offer.
I have a more in-depth report about the water for gas scam on my website. Or you can go directly to their website and see testimonials and videos for yourself by Clicking Here.
Tags: fuel economy, fuel prices, hydrogen systems, water for gas scam, water4gas
April 20th, 2008 at 8:59 pm
Thanks for detailed explanation of water for gas. Very helpful. Alway scared of using water for car. I can stay hungry but let the car run smoothly.
April 22nd, 2008 at 9:59 pm
I think my friend got scammed into buying this deal. We where going to market it here in South Africa and it does not give us the results we want. Thanks for this article.
April 22nd, 2008 at 10:53 pm
Hi did you test this on fuel injection and diesel? Also we find on the newer cars it cannot fit. Is this also the case in America?
April 23rd, 2008 at 5:00 pm
Hello Wade: I have not personally tested water for gas on a diesel engine. Testimonials from the website state that it works well with diesel engines. In my opinion I also think it would work with diesel engines. But I have not tested it.
On some vehicles it may be challenging to find a mounting area. Some people even mount them in the trunk. I have also seen people remote mount the vehicles battery and use that area to mount the hydrogen generator.
Thanks
April 27th, 2008 at 11:59 am
Where does the energy come from that breaks the water molecule bonds to release the hydrogen gas and oxygen gas from the water? Is it the electricity made by the alternator? Does the alternator get energy from the crank shaft that comes from burning gasoline? This system does not create any energy that did not come from the primary fuel gasoline.
April 27th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
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April 27th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
Yes Birney I agree with you. Water 4 gas does not replace gas or claim to. It increases fuel economy in a clever way. The hydrogen gas produced using water, baking soda and battery voltage richen’s the mixture. The cars computer will see this via the o2 sensors and then leans or trims the injector on time to correct the condition. Less fuel injector on time means more miles per gallon.
This system is not the long term answer to the fossil fuel problem! It was developed to help increase fuel economy.
May 5th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
Is there any risk to the motor or exhaust system due to water? Will it rust prematurely?
May 6th, 2008 at 7:47 am
Hello Joe: This a good question. In fact people using the system have tried installing a water trap in the vapor line to reduce the amount of water vapor that enters the engine. To my surprise it reduced the effectiveness of the water for fuel process.
The small amount of water vapor that is mixed with the hydrogen gas is completely burnt in the combustion process and no water actually enters the exhaust system. Although remember that moisture in the exhaust occurs naturally do to the heating and cooling process of the exhaust system.
As far as the water vapor being burnt in the combustion chamber this actually has a positive effect on the engine in reducing carbon deposits and decreasing combustion chamber temperatures in effect acting like an octane booster. Water injection has been used for many decades by drag racers. Do a search for water injection to learn more about why a little water is a good thing!
May 9th, 2008 at 3:00 am
[...] Another problem with the water for gas system is that it produces the same amount of hydrogen at idle, as it does at highway speeds. This is why the system includes an on off toggle switch.5 [...]
May 9th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9551919888/m/2321969559
Do the math… it’s a scam.
May 9th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
Nice to read your post, I was searching for car repair info and found you on google. I real the Water for gas scam? on google and had to check out on Friday. I went back the next day to re read the post as after reading more about this topic I found it to be a valid post. I have added you to my simpy account!
May 10th, 2008 at 9:34 am
Well I have decided to post all responces in the true meaning of freedom of speach. I may not agree with all of them but I do believe that they have a right to express there opinion.
I would like to see some of the chemists that commented on this thread purchase the water for gas system and build a hydrogen generator. And review the other cutting edge fuel saving techniques like the fuel heater system that are included in the package.
The water for gas system is not just about the hydrogen generator it’s about increasing fuel economy. Even a chemist must confirm that buying fuel cold and condensed and then heating the gas before it is burned in the combustion chamber will decrease fuel expenses.
They could return the product and get their money back if they prove that water4gas is a scam! All to often people will provide a review of a product they never purchased. In this case there is no excuse for it because the water for gas system has a 100% money back guarantee that is backed by the payment processor not the website.
May 11th, 2008 at 6:42 am
The Conservation of Energy and the First Law of Thermodynamics Can’t be Ignored.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_law_of_thermodynamics
The Iceland produces hydrogen from hydrothermal energy. The cost of production is cheap because is only a combination of Capital investment and Plant Operation Cost and FREE (geothermal energy).
To produce Hydrogen we have to spend a lot of Energy.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/thermo/electrol.html
By providing energy from a battery, water (H2O) can be dissociated into the diatomic molecules of hydrogen (H2) and oxygen (O2).
H2O => (H2) + ½ (O2) -285.83 kJ @ temperature 298K (Eo = 1.229 V)
The efficiency of water electrolysis is not 100%.
This event will occur on any conductive surface. When the proper amount of energy is applied, however, certain materials such as high surface area metals are more efficient and consume less energy to produce a given amount of hydrogen. The precious metal platinum has shown great activity for water electrolysis, attaining over 50% efficiency. Using electrodes composed of QSI nanometals, QSI has achieved up to 80% efficiency at lower current flow rates (100 mA/cm2) and approximately 60% efficiency at higher rates (1000 mA/cm2). The feed water of the electrolyzer must be distilled or deionized water, which is not cheap too.
Using ready to go technology with 80% efficiency and the electrode current density of (100mA/cm2), the water electrolyzer is not very compact and efficient, and the electrodes don’t last forever.
Installed in a car, the energy sourced from the battery has to be replaced by alternator, which in return used car engine energy with an efficiency of 25% to 30% of the burned gasoline. Producing free electricity from the Regenerative Braking System, or from Thermocouple Electrical Power Generator using the heat of exhaust system, is a different but not a simple story.
May 11th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
What happens with the pressure produced by the hydrogen? Does it keeps going up or does it stops at a certain pressure?
If the amount of electricity to the converter varies, does this produce more or less hydrogen?
What happens in the winter when the water in the converter freezes? Can antifreeze be used instead of water or mixed with the water?
Thanks.
May 11th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
The pressure never gets out of hand because the tank is vented to the air intake and venturi vacuum is applied so actually there is usually a slight vacuum in the tank. The hot side of the on off switch is connected to key on voltage only so the generator should never be on if the engine is off! I am going to say yes that adjusting the voltage applied to the electrolizer will vary the out put but I have it connected as per the instructions to constant 12 volts with the key on and power switch on.
Yes they can use additives to the water to prevent freezing but I have not read up on this subject because I live in south Florida!
May 17th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
Lets be objective.
Why can’t we get hard evidence on the actual performance of the vehicle’s with this system installed. God knows, if I could provide a service where consumers could cut their annual fuel consumption by 20% - 50% they would be lined up down the block just to get in (like tickets for a Stones concert). I would gladly sacrifice the time and money (what? $500us) to take the shot at doing something good for our economy plus make a good buck on top of it.
I never could believe in that whole 100mph carburetor that supposedly got killed by big oil. Detroit would have to be complete morons to pass that up. On top of it, if this thing really worked, I can’t help but think that Honda would have it in a Civic.
God Bless America!
May 21st, 2008 at 12:52 pm
Keep up this conversation. I’m enjoying it. I’m so close to taking the chance of losing 97.00 just to get this off my mind!! I’m no genius, i won’t act like it, but the whole concept from my point of view is intriguing. If it does work, i’ll be passing it on to my whole family and will start selling it.
The whole conversation of the energy to get the Hydrogen being too much is interesting. I wonder if running the alternator takes that much and effects the mileage. The Alternator runs anyways, so that’s already factored in. These are just my thoughts. More conversation on this has my complete attention.
Thanks all!!!
June 4th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
You know, I think we’re all on the same page on this subject. If this is the real deal, and we could all save just 20% on our own vehicle consumption, this would make a treamendous impact on our current energy dilema. And as I said before, I would do this in a second, no matter what the cost.
Very few of us are engineers and do not have the “where-with-all” to analyse this completely. Yet, I know that if this actually worked, the opportunities are endless. Engineering like this could save our country, but does it really work?
p.s. solve the issues with the efi.
June 6th, 2008 at 12:13 am
I just discovered Water for gas last night and found this site tonight. From a common sense point of view, this makes sense and, to me, a straight chemistry evaluation of the hydrogen and oxygen wont work. This is a very complex issue because if it was straight forward you could take all engines of the same size and get the same energy output with the same amount of fuel added to each engine. We know this isn’t viable. One of the previous posts stated the efficiency of fuel combustion was in the 20% range. When the water vapor and the gaseous state hydrogen and oxygen are added to the intake efficiency of combustion would increase. When the oxy sensor slows down the injector cycles milage picks up. The common sense theory is there but, to me, each engine will have to be tweaked on it’s own to maximize milage. Some will perform better with less tweaking. It would be nice to see a listing of all the engine makes modified, noting added components, existing milage on the engine, ambient and terrain driving conditions and milage increases obtained. This system performance is also going to be directly related to the quality of the hoses and connections.
Please keep the information coming.
June 9th, 2008 at 7:08 am
Absolutely keep the info coming. I’d be willing to try it on my 2000 Stratus but I don’t have the time to install it and subsequently spend hours just tweeking it. Ready made kits would be cool or a list of certified mechanics in my area that would do it for a fee.
June 12th, 2008 at 3:02 am
My husband and I have purchased a Bronco full size 1989 XLT 4×4. Modified engine and took out EFI as well as EECIV System. Question becomes, Vapor lock on non-carburated engine could add endless problems to an already endless seige of issues we have faced with this $13,000.00 modification. My argument to my husband becomes how much time does he have and how much time do we want this vehicle to be down because of un-resolved conversion issues? Furthermore, when and if vapor-lock occurs are we dead in the water? This is not a situation I am willing to face ever again having been stranded in numerous bad weather and alone on the road situations. So……..though this is a wordy and /or lengthy question in summary, is this system for a non EFI engine? And how much time would you estimate it would take to convert successfully?
June 12th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
Is it bad idea to buY the books? Is it Scam? I was looking forward to save money on gas… Please reply back.. Thanks
June 17th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
I have successfully installed these units on 2 of my vehicles. A 1999 Toyota Tacoma (4 cylinder 4 wheel drive) and a 2002 Oldsmobile Bravada (vortex in line 6). Both have over 100,000 miles. I am still testing all the time to maximize the performance. At this time I am experiencing a 25% increase on my Tacoma and a 15% increase on the Bravada. What people miss is 25% is only 4 miles per gallon. 15% is only about 2.5 miles per gallon. They automatically start thinking the increase is going to be much larger. the claim is wide 10 - 70 percent. 10 percent may only be 2 miles per gallon if your allready getting 20. With today’s prices that is still a huge savings and the system pays for it self in a mater of months, longer or shorter depending on your driving and how many vehicles you install it on. The idea is to introduce you to the system and let you decide how to proceed. Experimenters are always best because thay aren’t afraid to try something different to improve the system and share it with everyone to advance the technology.
June 25th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Have built and installed a hydrogen generator for my 1996 Toyota Starlet. No doubt about it producing the gas. It draws 2.7 amps at 14.5 volts which is around 1/2 a headlamp bulb worth of energy. On 95 octane this car does 50.2 mpg (4.54 litres) and with the conversion does around 39 - 41 mpg. I suspect that the fuel injection computer is having a battle dealing with my system. The system may work better with a carburrettor but I doubt the fantastic claims which have been posted to date. It is a lot cheaper and easier to simply modify your driving habits and this doesnt cost a bean.
June 27th, 2008 at 5:31 am
The computer is causing the problem. The books tell you how to overcome this problem. Try the cheap step below. When I say wrap the sensor, you only wrap the part sticking out of the exhaust there is no need to remove them.
The oxygen sensor actually sees more oxygen and cooler exhaust making it think it is running lean and therefore increases the fuel to the injectors. You can over ride this action by simply wrapping the exsposed part of the sensors with several layers of aluminum foil or installing oxygen extenders.
Do not attempt to do this without a water4gas system however as it can make the motor run to lean causing other problems.
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:30 am
I have yet to install this system on my truck but I found a website that has simplified plans and a schematic to build a controler for the water for gas system, so to pulse the electrodes instead of having constant power to them.
http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/feb2/carplans_doc.htm
July 15th, 2008 at 4:45 am
In reply to the comment by Justin, there are numerous plans available to build similarsystem to the water 4 gas, many with more electronics and more complicated electrode setups.
The redeeming factors with the Water 4 Gas system is it is very simple for the novice to make. Provided with the E-book is a spreadsheet with all the parts you need, what company to buy them from and the inventory numbers associated with them.
There is also a very good forum available to people that have purchased the system.
once again check out my personal experiance at scamorbam.com
July 17th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
Yeah, Hi - Just a thought on the problem of switching off the HHO generator at idle speeds - why not incorporate a switching system from the engines throttle linkages (etc) that automatically switches it off for you when throttle is at idle position - Problem Solved…..
Hopes this idea helps someone out there…. I have only just found the information on the Water 4 Gas system and researching it right now and seen that the above set-up could be of benefit to the system - I am a great believer in giving things a go and I can see merits in the system that need to be explored, trialed, modified if necessary to help the system function OR to develop something that can enhance fuel economy for any internal combustion engine - I DO believe THIS CAN BE ACHIEVED - and IF I am the one who can contribute in any way to ease the burden on the users of fossil fuel converters (cars, trucks, bikes, etc) by way of lower running costs - then I am happy to do so - then WE ALL can benefit from Cheaper running costs and a Cleaner Environment - LETS SAVE FUEL & SAVE THE PLANET.
July 26th, 2008 at 12:19 am
back in 1970, I fitted a water injection unit to a Mini Cooper , & got 5 extra m.p.g. It cost me about $2 to make. This new system sounds really interesting but I am having problems getting straight answers as to who will sell me a READY TO FIT WATER 4 GAS system. anybody listening?
July 29th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
Is anyone thinking out there? You take electricity that is generated by an approx. 80% efficient alternator, to hydrolize water at some where between 50 and 80% efficiency and you expect to get what would be huge efficiency gains from it? I think not. If you were to run the engine on anything other than trace amounts of hydrogen (and the hydrogen is all that is burned, as the air supplies sufficient oxygen for burning), it would take substantial amounts of electricity and water. Far more than what we are talking about here. If this system does anything at all, it is not because of creating HHO and burning it. I doubt any of the data is real, and if it was obtained honestly, I doubt it can be recreated. There are thousands of engineers and scientists salivating over such a discovery. Do they know everything? No, but they are not hiding this from the public or all of the lucrative opportunities such a technology would provide.
William I. Griffith, Ph.D.
August 12th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
I bought this e-book for $97 from GAS 4 Free. I would definitly call this a SCAM. I say that because they use a lot of misrepresentation on their website. You have to be a mechanical GENIUS to follow it and it will take DAYS not hours to make the thing work. Besides it will cost you HUNDREDS of dollars to make it and install it. It is NOT easy, and it is NOT cheap.
If you have lots of extra time on your hands (and maybe you do if you are reading this :)) and are very experienced with tools and cars, and have a few exra hundred dollars to invest, MAYBE this is for you.
I am going to try and get my money back under their 8 week guarantee.
August 12th, 2008 at 9:50 pm
I just found out about this yesterday and I’ve got a question.
Why is everybody jumping on the “lets all make money off of this idea” bandwagon? This should be completely free information. I understand that the water for gas pioneers would like to be compensated for their time and effort.
However it is my opinion that if this thing is as revolutionary as everybody is making it out to be then we could save our country if not the world. Call me crazy, but if a guy can build a machine that converts water to a gas (HHO) that can replace an oxy/acetalyne torch, burn a hole in a brick then melt a tungsten electrode and just turn back into water then there are far more applications for HHO gas than anybody can fathom at this point. Just think of the possibilities, we could run our entire house off a generator (no more power bills), drive our cars for next to nothing with more expirimentation, etc.. there are endless uses for HHO if it is as good as it sounds.
What I am getting at is that instead of trying to make huge money off of it, why not give the information for free or at least VERY CHEAPLY and have the whole world using HHO. I promise you guys will still be gazillionaires.
You want to send BIG OIL running for cover let everybody have and use the info for free. Of course the people who do the research would need to be paid but not that much. If we could live for almost free wouldn’t that be better than having to go to the rat race everyday just to make ends meet.
Not saying that it really works, just saying that if it does and we use it to its fullest potential it is well worth all the effort put into it. It will probably take several more years before we see anything like what I am talking about but I’ll tell you now, I’m not scared to work now so my kids can live for free.
I for one am all for this technology if it will hit all the greedy @#$&^$% where it hurts.
August 19th, 2008 at 9:36 am
B! Your post says to “give this info free”. Someone worked hard on research and compiling the info, this took time, money and effort on their part. And you want it to be given away for free? You are crazy!
August 25th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
OK. Just to let everybody know. Me and a friend have build our own fuel cell(hho). And all though we have installed it on an 2008 silerado. with a 4.8L v-8. We have found no improvement in gas mileage yet.
But we are just doing city driving. our next test is to start today.
we are taking the truck on a 300 mile drive.
i will let everyone know how things turn out. @ the end of the week.
October 13th, 2008 at 3:15 am
Gentlemen:
Here in the philippines, people could not believe that LPG can fuel our taxis because it is very dangerous and yet we are running on LPG. People are laughing at Cris Columbus when he says the world is round and spent a lifetime to prove it. No one would expect that we can go to the moon. Goodyear died without seeing the best part of rubber tire making. Galileo got some trouble when he sees the palnet and not God. HHO can be our future. Give it a chance. I our power plants we got hundreds of megawatt hours of idle energy just to serve us the so called grid reserve, say buffer power. why don’t we try producing HHO or H2 from it. In our cars, the alternator is already producing extra power that we do not actually use, why not use it to to produce HHO. I agree that this is not yet a perfect system. Just like when they try to solve the problem of too much oxygen, the invented the O-sensor. But I believe this thing will evolved. Have a nice day guys.
October 13th, 2008 at 3:51 am
I have actually built an HHO generator using glass jar and stainless steel wire used by fishermen wrap around a three part plexie glass glued together to form a tower support. To maintain the required wire clearance I use a fisherman nylon I wrap around the stainless wire. I tried to improvise because I could not afford to buy the e-books. I do not have problems with hoses (from auto stores) and the t-fittings (from aquarium store) including the electrical/electronic parts, but I have problem where to buy the check valves and cheap flashback arrestor. Although the aquarium store got some plastic check valves. when I tried it to may motorbike the water turns light brown but it did produce HHO, lots of bubbles. But I did not continue because I lack the right check valves. I only use the bubbler.
I think it will help increase fuel economy. The HHO does not actually burn like ordinary kerosene/gasoline when I tried the ligther (without the butane) but it exploded, first there were small popping sounds with almost invisible light. I would say that the e-books are just great ideas that needed serious experimentations and validations. People just want to cash on it right away. There a lot of people who does not want the manual controls, I mean they want some kind of computer to control it all - plug n play, hassle free. I think it would be possible to invent a smart controller for this - we have a 50 dollar celphones that can do so many things. Somehow it will evolved.
October 21st, 2008 at 10:29 pm
Hi Guys,
I haven’t tried this so can’t comment on whether it works or not nor do I have all the answers…
But, I did see a TV clip where Fox (?) had a segment on a chap working with HHO, etc.. Some of you might have seen it.
Here’s me thinking out loud :
If this all is just a scam, then surely the US Army would have picked it up or the guy wouldn’t have gone beyond testifying in Congress, etc….
There must be something to it…
Regards,
Tim
October 26th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Pat, Hey, I just pruchased the e-book from Run Your Car on Water. I am dying to try it but I need someone to fabricate the device. I have no expertise in this area. I have read the bolgs and I still don’t know whether or not to believe that this can work. It could be well worth while and I am willing to take a chance. I did find a site that was selling all the parts with plans to fabricate it but I lost the site due to computer failure! If anyone has come across ” an already buit device” I would try it.
Glad to hear others interested in this . Thought that I was the only one !
November 11th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
[...] Lets keep the conversation going. Leave your comments and thoughts both positive and negative at the bottom of this post. Maybe our resident chemist Bob will stop by to rejoin the water4gas debate. [...]